Okay I know I am going to light a fuse here but I wanted to ask a straight forward question not to get any buddy angry but just to see how people think about this subject.

I watched a show last night and people in the Los Angeles area are just turning their horses loose?

I mean they are taking them out like they are going to ride and leaving them? I can't believe it either but it is true. Now what the news is saying is that it is because of the economy and horses that are usually given a life until they die are now no longer able to afford feed and other things.

And these people cant afford the fee to put them down or hauled away. It is very sad. I know I don't like senseless horse slaughter and it seems unfair.

But is there no place for it? I mean wouldn't you rather see these horses be put down (if it was done in a humane manner) I know most SH don't but now their isn't any hope and these poor horses are starving to death.

And since feed cost have blown through the roof even rescues can't keep up.

I have a heavy heart for this issue and just wanted to see how people think.

thanks and don't get mad it is just a question.

Equineman

Equine Man,

It is a hard topic and very sad, They are having the same problem with house pets. As people are losing their homes they are just leaving their pets behind. It is sad on the owners part. As far as horses and slaughter that is a subject that has always taken a heavy toll on my heart. I have loved horses since I was first put on a carousel at 2 years old. I have been in the industry for years and all aspects of it. It is expensive for people to have their horses put down and the rescues being full, I think people feel that it doesn't leave them with any other option, Because they don't want to be known as the person who sent their horse to auction and it went to slaughter. They think that by setting them free in a place that they will revert to their instincts and be able to find food and water. Unfortunatley they just don't do well because they have lost it. The horses that are really feeling the blunt of it are the older retired horses or the ones that were just pasture pets that can't be used.

I guess there is a time and a place for everything, As animals owners we have taken it upon ourselves to care for these animals and need to step up to the responsibility no matter how difficult it may be.

There are other options that are out their they just take some work.

People can time share/lease share their horses,

For Euthanasia horses: there are other options out there, beside turning them loose or having the cost of a vet do it. (& I don't mean doing it yourself). One of those options is donating your horse to an animal sanctuary that has large cats. I have had clients do this. The animals are humainly euthanized first.

It is hard for us in the US because horses fall into this inbetween catagory. We don't really consider them companion pets (like a dog) and we don't really consider them Livestock, (like cows/pigs) since we consider most livestock as food sources. But in Some areas of the world that is how they are classified.

But no matter what a person chooses, Slaughter or Euthanasia, it is a better answer than turing a horse loose to fend for its self, that is the wrong answer by all means.

Just my opinion, and you didn't offend me Equine Man it is an Honest question and one that in our current state as a country needs to be addressed.

Yes, You heard right, not only are the horses suffering long slow deaths, there have been a few incidents where these "freed" horses have found their way back onto roadways and just last month a Marine home on visitation was killed when he hit one on a highway in Ga.
The main problem is that there was not enough research done on the fact that 200,000 horses per year were sent to plants. They stated the the rescues and general horse population could absorb that # back into the industry. And yes they could absorb the 200 in 2006 not the 400,000 in 07 and the 600,000 in 08. The breeders are still breeding the same # so the population continues to grow without an outlet.

Yes it is sad, and it happens here too. People can no longer afford to feed them, you cannot sell them because no one around here is buying. So people turn them loose. They starve to death, and it is a tragedy. There are a few shelters now that take the horse and find it a new home, but there still isn't enough help for people that can no longer afford their horses.

In lower-PA where my father works part-time as a CSX Contractor, several horses have been found throughout the winters there just turned loose. 3 were found on the RR tracks where he was working. I ended up with 5 from there this spring.
4 Quarters/Paints have been running loose near my boyfriend's house. He is a Constable (basically a cop but much more authority) and has had the owners sitated (sp?) into court. I almost ended up with one of the geldings but he was thankfully re-homed to a horse-owner who needed a riding horse. Praise God, I've got too many as it is ...

Ive been debating for the last few days on another forum about if I was Pro or Anti slaughter.
I will be up front and say I am pro slaughter.
There are so many factors that were brought up and to think about, the economy, hay shortages, over breeding, horses abused, neglected, left to starve. The transportation of these horses, the exporting of them to outside countries.

Yes, no matter how you look at it, it is and always will be a hard choice. It kills my loving heart but in my realistic world we need the slaughter plants and rendering plants. Do we need a more human way then the penetrating bolt gun? Perhaps but is a acceptable form of euthanasia according to the AVMA. Is there a more human way to transport? Yes, perhaps but these are problems to be worked out not solutions. Do we here in the States need to export our horses? No, I dont believe so. Do we need to stop foreign company's from owning a slaughter plant and export our horses to their country? Yes, I think we should. If our horses are to be slaughtered and processed for human consumption, then I feel we should be able to do it and take it out of the hands of foreign countries. It would create more jobs for our families, help our economy and perhaps folks that feel they have to turn loose their animals will have a different option. Rescues also have their place but it is getting out of hand due to so many horses being neglected. Also helped in part by over breeding.

I have done rescue work most of my life. I have rescued dogs, cats, reptiles and birds. I have a draft mix and a quarter horse. I find the idea of slaughter to be so repulsive. Yet before I let a horse die of starvation, I would send them to slaughter. I am lucky at this time to have money to pay a vet to put a sick animal down. In the event I am ever faced with that choice and no money, I would send a horse to slaughter. Now that the plants are closed I constantly hear of abandoned horses. Turning any animal out to fend for itself is down right cruel. I have rescued so many starving and abused dogs, only to find out I got there too late and the kindest choice was a needle. I get so tired of people bashing others for a choice they feel is necessary. If all these people feel so strongly about not slaughtering, then slow down on the breeding or take the abandoned animals in yourself. I only keep 2 horses because that is all that I can reasonably care for. They have good food and vet care. If I had more horses that may not be the case.

I agree with you 300% on all comments.

I also cringe at the thought of slaughter houses, but I also cringe at the thought of the euthanisa room in small animal shelters across the United States.

The U.S. slaughter plants helped maintain a balance. They weren't doing anything different than Humane Societies that euthanize dogs and cats when they can't adopt them out.

IMHO what should have been done was to lobby for much more humane treatment not only at the slaughter plants but during the loading/trucking process to the plants.

I wonder how many folks realize that there the horses that go to the Mexican slaughter plants are first "numbed" so they can't move, then their throats are slit and they slowly bleed to death.

Yeah it was a morally right thing to shut down the U.S. slaughter plants wasn't it--

Inexpensive euthansia clinics, such as is being experimented with somewhere in California would do wonders to save abuse by starvation.

A lady on my local horse forum has watched a field full of horses & goats go downhill since the grass died off. The old man that owns them doesn't have money to feed them. He has no where to send them. Two of the elder horses died this last week.

The old man's comment when the police came out? "Why should I spend $500 to euthanise them when they will die soon enough anyway"

I have four horses (one is a rescue), five cats, and three dogs (just put my 4th one to sleep at 14-1/2 yrs on Christmas Eve day). All the cats and dogs are/were rescues.

Like you, BluMongoose, if I take in more horse ( could handle another dog or cat), I then become the person I am trying to save them from.

As it is, my 21 yo TWH has equine metabolic syndrome and it costs me plenty to keep him healthy without drugs. I have had him 18 years and could easily say he's outlived his usefulness and send him off to the kill auction 100 miles NE of me. He is with me until the light goes out of his eyes - at that point I will have my vet euthanize him and he will be laid to rest next to one of my other horses and across the fence from little woods where there are already enough cats and dogs that I am starting to forget where they all are. A couple of them were dumped and had been in dog fights before I got to them. I spent $$ on vet bills but to no avail, so the best I could do was to give them a decent burial.

As life-long horse owner, and having been raised on a dairy farm, I could really get on my soapbox about the entire situation, including people that decide they want to own a horse and no nothing about owning what they think is going to be an 1,100 pound dog. Pretty soon things start to go south, the horse gets a bad rap it doesn't deserve and generally ends up in a rescue type environment where it didn't need to be in the first place.

In all my life of breaking training and re-schooling the proverbial Widowmaker, I have only ever seen TWO horses that truly needed put down. Their issues were medical and, back in the 70's, there wasn't a fix for either one of them that was affordable.

I was naive enough in my 20's & 30's to think over-breeding and indiscriminate breeding of ANYTHING would be close to non-existant some day. I am now 61 and the situation has only gotten worse. It is indeed disheartening.

I also would like to see it be more humane. I'm not blind to the suffering as some seem to think. But have you ever witnessed the havoc it plays on an animals body to slowly starve? If I could guarantee that my shot would be true I would shoot a horse before sending it to slaughter. Yet I hope to never be in the position to not afford to have an animal humanely put down by a vet. The facts are there, too many horses and not enough options. Believe me, I would love to see all horses rehomed. That would be wonderful. But starvation is a more torturous death by far.
As far as the people who just don't care, they will always be with us. Even with education and more resources there will be many that still will not care. I saw an article on a "so called" artist that chained a dog to a gallery wall with no food or water and visitors walked thru to witness the dog slowly dying. This was not in the US, but we have people of the same caliber here. Whether you believe in slaughter or not, it serves a purpose untill such time that we can come up with a solution. The solution should not be as Petard sees it, the elimination of all pets, but a working means to balance the pet and horse population. To eliminate horses and pets would hurt all of us. In the meantime we as caring individuals must continue to do what we can to work to a solution. If you are breeding for improving a bloodline or to produce an animal that you need, fine. But if you are breeding just because you can, or to fill your pocket book, shame on you.

I am pro slaughter and have been all along. I have been telling the antislaughter/uninformed/uneducated for years what closure of the slaughter houses would do. It is like talking to a rock. There is no way the rescues and foundations that were set up will be able to take in all the horses that would usually have gone to slaughter. One of my biggest concerns now is that the government will take some of my hard earned tax dollars to care for horses that were not wanted by their owners. Horses that the bleeding hearts are trying to save without a realistic game plan.

Okay, get mad at me if you wish but I have to comment about slaughter. I am pro slaughter for many reasons, many were mentioned in other posts. I have eaten horse and it is good meat to eat. I see nothing wrong with eating horse, it is sweeter than beef. Just because people eat horse is nothing big to get upset about. People eat dog, cat, rat, opposums, skunks, racoons and many other things that I wouldn't eat...big deal do we or should we say what is right to eat and what isn't? I don't think so. If I was hungry enough, I suppose I would eat raw fish or maybe a guinea pig.

I use to work at a BEEF slaughter house (a major meat packer in the USA). The cattle were knocked out first then had their throats slit to bleed them out. They had NO IDEA they were dying but they were still alive when their throats were slit. It is a similar process for horses, I believe. As long as the animal is knocked out, HOW CAN THEY SUFFER if they DON:T KNOW what is going ON? Sure, when any animal dies, they have body movements but that is the reaction of the muscles to the lack of oxygen (the change of sodium and potassium levels in the muscle cells cause this reaction).
I would just as soon have the United States plants slaughter US horses, they have control over the process AND the meat is inspected for consumption. We have higher standards of what is safe to eat meat than MEXICO, safe food is important to ANY country. Sending a horse to slaughter can be regulated. Horse numbers in stock trailers can be controlled. Of course there is always those idiots out there who do't follow the rules, that has ruined the slaughter plants reputations so all are labelled as bad. That is how we ended up with the slaughter ban in the first place..too many PETA and other animal welfare groups making too much noise.

Putting a horse down will save them from starving to death and keep people from getting killed when a horse is turned out to fend for themselves. I'd like to see them go to slaughter so protein can be provided for someone. I have also considered taking in unwanted horses for a term of one month and if I can't place them, I can just shoot them and bury them, that way they don't suffer(Cruel? NO it is realistic and more humane than starving). I hate to think of shooting a horse but I also understand the necessity. I've been working with, training and raising horses for 20 plus years. I limit my breedings to what I use only and occasionally breed outside horses. If I have a horse I cannot use or place in a good permanent home, I keep it or put it down, that way there isn't any neglect. Sounds like a waste of a good horse but It is the only thing I can do with no slaughter in the US. We need Slaughter brought back, not only to get the horse numbers down, increase the value of our horses and to insure that there is a safe supply of safe horse protein for those who eat horse.

Must be one of the antislaughter/uninformed/uneducated bunch that doesn't appreciate someone elses opinion.

I agree with you 100% tazassape, I do not like horse slaughter but I understand the reason for it. We even took in a mare and her filly when her owners couldnt take care of her anymoreand we already had 14 horses, four of them drafts (they eat alot more than saddle horses by the way) If I could Id tke all the horses in and care for them, but I know thats only in dream land, this is reality. Slaughter houses are there for the horses that no one wants, the sick, the old, the nasty and mean ones, and the crippled ones. Face it, not every horse meets the specifications of perfection. Yes I understand that the thought of a horses throat being slit is not a picture I or any one else would like to see, but it is better that they die unconsious, not feeling it than dying the ways I have seen them die. Trust me I know, Ive seen it enough times and it turns my stomach.

It is a necessary evil. The bleeding hearts need to be the ones to cough up the money to feed all these unwanted horses. They just run their mouth at everyone else's expense. JMHO.

ive just been to my first horse sale in lets just say a very very long time... it was sad to see all those horses going through and yes 90% went to the doggers ... a lot of them where skinny and injured horses negelected and unridable personally I think it would have been better for these horses stress wise to have gone straight to the doggers rather than put them through all that added stress.

I bet that half their owners have never been to a sale and have no idea what their horses where going through in those wet muddy yards.

personally i would never send an injured horse through a sale but straight to the doggers so it didnt have to go through that added stress.

sorry if Ive upset anybody but this is just my opinion