Well I'm not sure if it's because he's getting older or if it's ever since his paddock changed. Lately I've been putting a saddle on Jolly & working him in the arena & round pin, but it took me a good 10-15mins to get a decent trot out of him. Even with the saddle no where to be found he still is being a butt head. He recently was moved to a different paddock due to the lack of grass in his old one [it had NONE] & his pasture mate was taken to a different stable. He's now in the geldings pasture that is fully grassed & has gotten very lazy. Is it because he's getting more food then before? Or is it something I'm doing wrong? I got him to canter about...maybe four or five strides & then he turns towards his paddock & bumps the round pin.

One thing also I noticed & I'm not sure if it's because he's becoming older but he dosent get as excitied around new horses anymore. The other day I had him in the arena & there it basically is in a pasture LOL, anyway there were two mares in there at the time & they began to play. Jolly seemed to not even notice which is strange for him. Not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just saying it's weird for him.

Is he getting bored of our routine? Is it because the new paddock?

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Thanks for anyone's advice!

Well, it could be because his pasture mate is gone and he's sulking a bit, at least some of it.

He could also be getting old enough to test you. As he comes into his own, it makes sense that he is going to test the boundaries you set down for him and see what he can get away with just like any teenager. A perfect example of this is when he turned away from you and bumped the panel in the direction of his pasture. This is a pretty critical stage in his ground training, you can't let him think he's got your goat.

By this I mean you need to make sure he does what you ask of him, when you ask it. If you send him off and cue him to trot and he ignores you, make him work harder so that he realizes it's easier to listen to you than work his butt off. If he doesn't want to canter when you ask, (do you use a lunge whip? I use it for the sound) crack the whip and MAKE him go. If you swing a rope to cue him, coil it and toss the end just behind him. It doesn't actually touch him but they normally scoot away cuz they think it will.

You have to establish respect now, or you will have to work 20 times harder later to get it.(Yep, that's personal experience speaking.) He should know that when you take him into the round pen it's business, and for the most part he should be looking to you the whole time. Now, he is still a baby so it's going to take time to get to that point. Don't expect perfection immediately, but w/consistency on your part he should learn very quickly. This is normal for any horse, in the wild the older they get the more they strive to establish a place in the herd hierarchy, and he sees you as a funny looking horse in his herd.(No offense,lol) He most likely is not an alpha-type because he's a gelding and they are normally on the lower end of the totem pole, but he is still going to "spread his wings" a bit as he grows.

Thanks Jenn!

I do use a whip [only for sound also] but he seems to have figured out that it wont hurt him. So he kinda just stares at me like "Is that all you got?". I've tried wiggling it right behind his legs & I did get a decent trot but when he stopped & I did it again, but he basically gave me the horse verison of the middle finger LOL.

When I took him to the arena, he did just fine. Troted, Canter...the works. But it seems that when I used the round pen he gets retarded. It's kind of hard to explain what he exactly he is doing...I may upload a video & get your input off that. Though I must warn you...I look like a confused idiot LOL.

What I think it might of been also is that I had my boyfriend & my bud Arrick come out to help me work him [they love horses as well] & it could be that Jolly was also testing them? Since he doesnt know them? Though Ron has worked Jolly several times before & he listened very well.

I'll just upload a bit of the ground work & get some more input off that.

Thanks again!

-Kara

It's a combination of things.
He is now on grass=fat and lazy. He's just content, and see absolutely no reason to work hard.
Horses are lazy by nature-they eat/sleep/poop/eat some more. They also learn through repitition, so you work him in the round pen and arena. the roundpen and arena are not new and scary places to him. He associates those with work. A horse will take the easiest answer 100% of the time. If he knows your not going to really hit him, he is going to move around as slow as you will let him. It's easy for him.
As for the mares, unless they showed up that day, they also are not new to him, so he was being lazy.
When dealing with youngsters boredom, is not neccessarily a bad thing.
It may be easier to judge if you make a calendar, write things down on it, his attitude, the temperature, time of day, what you did, your goals for the day and long term, as he gets better your goals will change. Way back when first starting, you try to teach them to lead without getting drug along behind. Well now that is established and taken for granted. You fully expect him to lead like he should everytime no matter what. The same goes for your round pen work, consistant repetition, he now understands what is expected of him.

I don't know which kind of whip you use, but I've found that a mid length is best for me. The ones w/lashes that are really long get in the way, and the shortest lunge whips aren't long enough.

Somehow I've gotten really good w/the whip and I can crack it right behind him w/out touching him(pats self on back,lol). Jackson is kind of a pushy little turd face sometimes and if I don't consistently remind him that I'm boss he's very disrespectful. The other day I cued him for Join Up and instead he put his head down and was more interested in the 3 blades of grass in the round pen!

Is the arena you use indoor? If so that could be part of it, there are more distractions outside.

Were your BF and bud the ones working him in the round pen?

I use a semi-long-ish whip with a string ...thing. [arent I great at discribing?] & the arena is outside & yep, they were working him in the round pen.

& thanks for your advice Ltc4h!

If he's ignoring you, smack him on the butt with the whip. I'm not saying beat him, I'm saying give him a little sting or prod to get his attention, show him you are the boss and make him move! If you were lead mare in the herd you would kick, bite or rear to get him to behave, so a little thing like a smack with a crop or a whip is not a bad thing.

I know I'm not going to win any popularity contests here with those that think whips, crops and spurs should never be used (it's not politically correct). But those tools have stood the test of time for good reason. Horses that are not obedient can over run us and hurt or even kill someone. That little crop or whip is our edge, our advantage. Just as we need to learn to have soft hands to not mess up a horses mouth, we need to know how to use the other tools at our disposal to correct, discipline and get their attention.

I lunged him the other day & he did have a few fits. He bucked & kicked out at me while cantering, but what I found that worked was I held the crop up & pointed at his neck. When he got lazy I flicked it & it would hit his butt. He did a lot better.

I was so comfortable with his behavior I bridled him & lunged him again. He did wonderfully. BUT! After we were done my mom was feeding him treats. I gave him one after he was completely done with our ground work. He wanted another & was staring at my pocket. I ignored him the first couple times. He then tried to nibble on my pocket & I flicked my hands at him to tell him to back off. He then spun around & threatened to kick me. I moved out of the way quietly & confidently & tried to push him out again, he yet again spun around & threatened to kick.

So I left the round pen for about three mins. trying to not let my nerves get to me. I then entered back into the round pen & hooked his halter on & worked led him around. I was to shooken up to lunge him. [Remember..my first time ever with a baby] So then I led him around the stable & did NOT let him have his usual graze afterwards & treat when being turned out.

I think what happened was I got annoyed with him & reacted in a way that made him feel he had to defend himself.

I'm still nervous about trying to lunge him since the threatened kicks...What should I do?


[Sorry I wrote so much lol!]

he knows when you are scared and now that you have stopped lunging him he thinks he will be able to get away with it and scare you off so he doesnt have to do any work.
DONT stop lunging him.
the best advice i haveto give is that let him know who is in charge and dont let him think he can get away with little things like that.
the buckin and kickin isnt neccisarily a bad thing while lunging he is just feeling good and is good for him to run the energy off.
i use a pretty long lunge whip also.which one horse doesnt even need it and the other doesnt even phase him.

DON'T tolerate attempt/kicking ever! If he learns that he can get away with that kind of disrespectful behavior at such a young age, he will not forget it. He needs to know that you are alpha mare at all times. (Though I know he's not a slave of course lol).

For general laziness or non-responsiveness ( like you were first speaking of) a little pop with the whip isn't going to hurt him as Cheryle said. Of course we don't mean beating a horse, but enough to get their attention when it is needed. For disrespect (which is how he was treating you when you said no for the treats), it's a different story. Imagine a herd horse, the lowest in pecking order in the pasture doing what he did to you...only to the alpha horse in the field. Now what would the alpha horse do to him? Hehe...give him h*ll right?

When he shows disrespect such as that, he needed a GOOD smack with the whip, or chased well around the round/pen. Literally SCARE him for at least 5 seconds. Let him know that IS NOT tolerated. It sounds mean, but you will not regret it in the long run. You don't want it to get worse later. Simple moves like showing his butt to you earlier was a smaller sign of disrespect and if I am working a horse which does that to me, I immediately give them a pop with the whip/long rope, or make them work harder for a few seconds. Flat out attempting to kick at you was on the worse end of the level. None of my horses ever try that with me anymore.

I am saying this as a friend! I know what it's like to have an ever-growing disrespect in a youngster not fun