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03-19-2010,
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seligman, AZ
Posts: 149
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Deep thoughts about training
The March issue of "The Morgan Horse" features Ray Ordway, "Dean Of The Vaqueros". He refers to the late Morgan stallion "Can Don Joshua Dan" as "an ideal old style vaquero horse and excellent example of the Morgan stock horse".
Here is what Jo Johnson, owner of the horse, has to say:
Building a bridle horse is a little like a great marriage, I think: you must be firm and unwavering in your dedication to the relationship. You must have great communication skills: that is, be willing to find a way to “talk” together so your horse understands and can learn. And you must be open to the fact that each of you will have to revisit and rethink things together, as time goes by and you both grow. You must be forgiving of the little mistakes, and realize they can be fixed. You must be honest with yourself, and with how things are progressing. You must accept responsibility when things are not going as you might like. You cannot be judgmental, become angry – or worse yet loose your temper – because when that happens we might “say” things we wish we hadn’t. You must forever let go of the EGO.
Bold by me - no further comment.
GC
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03-29-2010,
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pa
Posts: 1,069
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Consider this;
Dear Friend and Horseman,
Recently, while at a big horse show, I over-heard a group of horse owners having an in depth conversation.
These people were strongly voicing their opinion about horse training, horse trainers and horse showing.
And to tell you the truth, what I overheard kind of bothered me.
The thing that bothered me was that these folks talked with a lot of "authority" yet had little understanding about the very topics they were talking about.
Their ignorance led them to CONDEMN some very good trainers that didn't deserve their ridicule and scorn.
The reason I wanted to write about this is because I know there are a lot of folks out there who have the same "misconceptions" as the people I was eavesdropping on.
So in this newsletter, I'd like to discuss some things that apparently few horse owners understand.
MISCONCEPTION #1:
One of the ladies in the conversation, mentioned the name of one of my very dear and long-time trainer friends.
She stated, "That guy must not be a very good horse trainer because I never see him win much money or be in the national year-end standings.
I'd never take one of my horses to him".
I have to admit, when I heard her say that, I was immediately teed-off.
The trainer she was talking about is a TOP HAND and has been a top hand for a long time.
When this guy was seriously hauling, he was very tough to beat.
He won multiple year-end championships, won multiple aged-events and made the finals a bunch.
Most of his big wins came BEFORE these ladies came on the scene.
These Johnny-come-latelys are totally unaware of what my friend has won or what he is capable of.
They brand my friend "a bad trainer" because they don't understand what it takes to win big championships.
They don't understand that it requires a whole lot more than just being a good horse trainer.
To win national titles, a trainer must be ready, willing and able to haul to all the major shows.
Which means, he needs a good crew at home training the horses while he is going down the road.
He'll also need several "money" clients with ample funds to cover all the expenses… it's really, really expensive to campaign a horse to a major championship.
And most important, those clients better supply the trainer with top, top horses capable of winning in the toughest of competition.
If ANY of the above ingredients are missing, the big championships probably won't happen for the trainer.
Very few trainers manage to have all the ingredients come together on a consistent basis.
That is why you'll see a trainer not win much one year and then jump up and be a "star" the next.
A good example is Boyd Rice.
Boyd is an outstanding horse trainer/showman and one of the hottest trainers in the country.
Boyd has been a top hand most of his life yet the public never heard of him until he reached his mid-fortys and started winning major championships.
What do you think happened to cause that?
Do you think Boyd just woke up one morning at age 45 and miraculously turned into a good trainer and started winning?
No.
What really happened is after all those years, Boyd was finally able to put all the ingredients together so he could go win.
He managed to acquire a good client who was willing to supply a top horse and pay the expenses to go down the road.
His success going down the road, attracted more good clients with top horses and that brought even more success.
It's a beautiful thing when it all comes together like that.
MISCONCEPTION #2:
Another part of the conversation I over-heard had to do with several big-name trainers not making the finals at this particular show.
A couple people in the group commented about how some of the top trainers who they expected to make it to the finals, didn't.
And they alluded that the reason those trainers didn't make it, probably had a lot to do with them slacking off and not doing a good job.
Again, their ignorance and willingness to condemn, didn't set too well.
Yes, they were right about some of the big-name trainers not making the finals at this show but they were totally clueless as to why.
This show was a big, cutting horse aged-event with a big money purse.
Big aged-events (where cattle are involved) are usually won by trainers who have SEVERAL horses entered up in each division.
Some of those horses will bomb-out but the odds are at least one will make it to the finals.
When you have a trainer with MULTIPLE entries competing against a trainer with only ONE entry, the trainer showing multiple horses has a BIG advantage.
At this particular aged-event, the ECONOMY had a lot to do with the trainers in question not making the finals.
Because of the economy, some of the big-name trainers who normally have multiple horses entered, now only have ONE.
If you only have one horse entered and a little "bobble" happens during your run, you're done.
You have NO second chance to make it.
MISCONCEPTION #3:
One of the men in this group, commented that he sent his expensive, well-bred colt to a top trainer to be started.
He said the trainer isn't doing a good job because he's had the colt for two weeks and its scared to death and hasn't even been ridden yet.
The man also added, he knows the trainer is messing the colt up because before sending the colt to the trainer, he put his 12-year old son on the colt's back and led him around and the colt was absolutely fine.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard somebody tell a story like this or a similar version of it.
Just a few days ago I received an email form a woman who basically said the exact same thing.
Here's what these folks don't realize…
Leading your kid around on the colt's back means absolutely NOTHING (other than he's gentle enough to let you do it).
Keep in mind, the colt is in a familiar environment with people he knows and he's not being asked to do much of anything.
Once that colt goes to a trainer, he's asked to learn a bunch of new stuff and learn it in a short period of time.
He'll have to learn to respect the trainer's space… learn to pack a saddle and bridle… learn how to lunge correctly… learn to willingly give to the bit… learn what whoa and cluck means… learn to pack a grown man's weight… learn to respond and move away from pressure… learn to walk, trot, lope and guide… etc. etc etc.
Some colts are going to get worried or scared by all this.
Of course, in time they'll understand what its all about and settle in just fine.
But if that colt's owner shows up at the trainer's place during that "worried" phase, the owner will assume the trainer is doing something wrong.
If you are an owner, these are facts you need to keep in mind.
Give the trainer a chance to do his job.
It may take a couple of months for the colt to settle in.
Now, the other side of that coin is that if the trainer truly IS messing up your colt… two months is enough time to RUIN him.
As the horse's owner, it is your responsibility to do your research and take your colt to a COMPETENT trainer instead of some bulls**t artist.
It's also your responsibility to educate yourself enough about training horses so you can tell the difference.
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03-29-2010,
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seligman, AZ
Posts: 149
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Holy cow! Let me say, that in general I could not agree more - and then start at the end:
"It's also your responsibility to educate yourself enough about training horses (and horses - added by me) so you can tell the difference." How true! I too have heard people talk about / comment about / yes condemn trainers, that had no idea what they were talking about - but where judging a trainer.
And I would like to throw the time factor in again - the famous "30 day wonder". There is a reason that it takes 5 years to train a bridle horse - which is about as close to a Grand Prix horse as it gets. But hardly anybody would give you five years to accomplish that. Fast food, instant coffee - there has to be "instant training".
I once worked a "problem horse" and it took me three weeks to find the "problem" - there was absolutely no "progress" during this time. Luckily for me - and the horse - the owner did not want an "instant solution".
As far as trainers winning, I never have seen a better explanation what all goes into that. A good friend of mine (the only one I send my horses to) had been training driving horses for years and years - winning locally, but that was it. He finally found a client with the right horse, the money and total determination - and went with this client all the way to Gladstone.
You can be a heck of a good trainer and never win a big show or competition. There is a lot of money involved - plus everything else mentioned.
Great article - thanks!
GC
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03-30-2010,
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 37
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I have had an experience with a trainer similar to one you mentioned Ltc4h with the "horse being ruined" I had a trainer come in to work with Chance (at the stable where I had him boarded - familiar environment - and me watching on the sidelines - basically a check up - I hadn't trained in over a decade and was looking for a second opinion) and what I saw wasn't pretty. My ususal calm and quiet boy went nuts with the trainer handling him. She asked him to walk on a longe line and it turned in to the Kentucky derby. (Chance also came from a not so good past before I got him) Some trainers are great but there are some methods that they use I question(I understand why they use those methods but feel that there has to be a better way). Not every good trainer is well known and quite a few of them don't have the finances to go to the big shows (I know I don't!). I wish those people you had heard realized what it took and had some time to be in the trainer's shoes. As I have said in other posts - I train but I limit it to my own horses. (The main reason why I learned to train is out of necessity - spending a week at the end of August - in Texas - with not much to do but ride and one trained pony and one not - is what turned me on to this path.) I do respect the professionals and when they don't win - hey it happens - and they can focus on where they had trouble and include in training to help with the areas they had trouble in. Trainers are only human - they can make mistakes just like every one else. For them to be branded a "bad trainer" just because they didn't win I don't feel is right.
And Yes - Wolfgang_gc that article is so true. I'm going on three years with Chance and training him and I'm amazed. Time does make a good bridle horse.
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03-30-2010,
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 242
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Great Article, A couple thoughts....
1. people who make comments like this are why top trainers (in my world, those who make it to Congress and the World every year) don't let owners in their barn unless the visits are by appointment and after a certain amount of time has past. Sometimes i wish i could get away with that but i dont have the name or the moo-la so im stuck dealing with owneres who read a Anderson or Parelli book on the way to the barn and think they know everything there is to know about training (including what staff are doing wrong).
2. Add politics to the list of why top trainers do/ do not make it to top shows. The quarter horse world is a very buddy-buddy group when you get to the top. Someone is judging a class in which two horses of a certain trainer are competing. This particular judge happened to send his colt to this particular trainer two years ago. Amazingly these two horses place top ten. Granted, when you start out with a class of 90 and they all move EXACTLY alike, there has to be some distinguishing factor. Sadly, it comes down to politics alot of times.
3. the longer a trainer is in the business, the longer he/she has time to develop a reputation. this works both in favor and against the trainer. We are all human and make mistakes and when it comes to horses which are such a big investment (both emotionally and financhially) people always tend to remember the one mistake a little longer than the 50 victories.
Last edited by circlekinstructor : 03-30-2010 at .
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03-30-2010,
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seligman, AZ
Posts: 149
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Yes, politics play a role - not a small one.
But being the old shrink I am I would like to point to a potential personality problem.
To win in competition you have to be a "go-getter". You have to be willing and able to push yourself and your horse to the maximum possible performance and concentration in and for a very short time. There is no time or chance for "opps, lets try that again" - you are out.
As I tried to point out in the starting post, this might not be the most suitable way for training. Competition thrives on EGO (and yes, some horses have that, too)- training should not.
That could in my opinion well be the reason why there are quite a few top competitors who make lousy trainers, very good trainers who are not good at competition - and only a very few who are good at both.
GC
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05-10-2010,
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5
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As this has been my first real winter since 1998, I've been forced to mix things up a bit from my normal training routine. In a normal year, I usually have between 2500 and 3000 miles by now, and have been racing for almost a month. Now that I live in Cincinnati (which has had it's 5th snowiest winter on record), I've had a great opportunity to add in a variety of cross training to my normal routine. Running, XC skiing, weights, cyclocross, and yoga have all been key additions to my fitness regimen during the winter. Of these, I feel like I have gained the biggest benefit from following a weekly yoga practice at the YogahOMe studio.
I have been attending a hot vinyasa class that has really helped me to focus my mind and develop much greater flexibility throughout my body. I can remember starting out back in November, and having to use blocks to support myself during certain poses. Tonight I realized that I was able to achieve those same positions unsupported, which brought a smile to my face. I've had a lot of nagging little aches and pains over the years, which I think were magnified by being a little to focused on cycling and not enough on overall body strength. It's good to visit one's weaknesses now and again to know what should be improved, as this can only serve to make one's strengths that much better.
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01-13-2012,
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
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Training to a horse for riding and race is not hard. It is easier job when taken with care and pointing its. It want well communication of animal and human.
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01-20-2012,
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by circlekinstructor
so im stuck dealing with owneres who read a Anderson or Parelli book on the way to the barn and think they know everything there is to know about training (including what staff are doing wrong). 
LOL ok that cracked me up!
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