I have a 4 yo Arab/quarter gelding. He came to me very green and we sent him to a trainer for 90 days. Previously, I was working with another trainer who was supervising me riding him , but he bucked me off so many times, that she recommended we send him to this guy and start over. The trainer did not do any follow up with us and I only got to see him work him one time in the 90 days. Now that he is home, he is better, not bucking again yet and we have had some lunging problems. When the trainer sent him home, he said to lunge him for 30 minutes and then ride him at a walk and trot. While lunging, he initially started stopping and turning towards me and I would just go to him and start him over but that eventually turned into striking at me so I used the whip on him once and that seems to have solved that problem.
We have gone on a couple of short trail rides at a walk only, and he is pretty good as long as he is following my husbands horse, he won't go if I ask him to lead the way. He seems very insecure and he spooks more now than he did previously.
So, i decided to try having him go on his own in our arena and that went pretty well and I was even able to get him to trot a little bit, but he is now tossing his head a lot and keeps trying to take the bit and put his head down. It's not a fast tossing, if that makes sense, more like he is trying to get his head away from me? He is so focused on this that he stumbles at times from not paying attention and I feel like I have to hold him up. the bit is a dutton colt bit, tear drop style tom thumb. I had a regular snaffle on him, but he played with that one even worse. He is also still refusing to go but not terribly so, I can get him to move with leg pressure most times. It takes a lot to get him into a trot and that is when he really starts the head stuff and acts up. I think he is going to explode soon.
Can anyone offer some advice or insight into this head movement? I have a call into the trainer, but frankly he has not been much help and I don't even know what he really did with him. I love this horse and put a lot of money into him. I just want to do things right by him. I have some experience, rode a lot as a young girl and even jumped and barrel raced, but it has been some years and I don't bounce as good anymore on the ground.
Any advice is appreciated.

~Lorna

Howdy, I am new here, but I do train horses for a living and hobby here in Idaho. I would suggest a hackamore, no more bits in the mouth. A sturdy hackamore will work great if you give lots of encouragement, and try it out in a confined area. Not out in the open, cause it is not a bit. Alot of horses, especially Arabs and their crosses, actcept this better.

^ good post.

your horse is both soiled and aggressive from what you say and also may have a physical issue causing the head tossing.

Regardless of discomfort you should never allow a horse to strike at you, it is dangerous. Secondly, have a vet check him, especially the mouth and back for soreness. If he's okay there, I would saddle him and work him in a round pen loose instead of lungeing him. Stop and turn him quite often and let him understand you can control his movements.

On the second or third day, bridle him and tie his head back so there is some pressure on the bit (a little, not a lot) and drive him forward in the round pen into the bit untill he accepts the pressure and learns to carry his head by relaxing instead of tossing his head.

next day increase the tightness of the bit a little and repeat what you did yesterday.

You don't have to work him long in the round pen, just until he relaxes and accepts you driving him forward. After you do this get on him and ride him a while and get him to do the same thing with you on him.

Right now he has you intimidated and knows it so he does what he wants (not going forward, not trotting or leading a group, etc.), you have to reestablish a position of authority over him and get him to move where and when you want him. If you don't do this you will have a horse you can do very little with and not enjoy the experience like you should.

Another point that most don't want to hear is if you can't fix the problem, buy a horse without those issues so you can enjoy yourself. This is supposed to be fun

your horse is both spoiled and aggressive from what you say and also may have a physical issue causing the head tossing.

Regardless of discomfort you should never allow a horse to strike at you, it is dangerous. Secondly, have a vet check him, especially the mouth and back for soreness. If he's okay there, I would saddle him and work him in a round pen loose instead of lungeing him. Stop and turn him quite often and let him understand you can control his movements.

On the second or third day, bridle him and tie his head back so there is some pressure on the bit (a little, not a lot) and drive him forward in the round pen into the bit untill he accepts the pressure and learns to carry his head by relaxing instead of tossing his head.

next day increase the tightness of the bit a little and repeat what you did yesterday.

You don't have to work him long in the round pen, just until he relaxes and accepts you driving him forward. After you do this get on him and ride him a while and get him to do the same thing with you on him.

Right now he has you intimidated and knows it so he does what he wants (not going forward, not trotting or leading a group, etc.), you have to reestablish a position of authority over him and get him to move where and when you want him. If you don't do this you will have a horse you can do very little with and not enjoy the experience like you should.

Another point that most don't want to hear is if you can't fix the problem, buy a horse without those issues so you can enjoy yourself. This is supposed to be fun

I suspect you are right about the respect issues and I have worked hard to overcome that with his biting, and striking, but obviously not enough. I will try driving him as you suggest and see how that goes.
I have had him and his teeth vet checked since he has been home and so I am confident there are no physical issues. When he came home, the corners of his mouth were quite raw though and I waited for them to heal before doing anything else with him. Could something like that also have an effect on his current behavior? The trainer used some type of twisted wire snaffle the one time I saw him ride him. He called the raw spots raspberries and said they are common?
I have thought about selling him, but would like to see this through as I have already invested a lot of time and money and I do love this horse in spite of himself.
Thanks for taking the time to respond, your advices are appreciated.

~Lorna

Lorna,

First off sounds like the trainer took you for a ride. I would not go changing bits just yet. But the main thing is you have a 4 year old horse (breed don't matter) that has been in some type of training and now is throwing his head. Did the vet just check his teeth or did he actually do them? If he has just checked them I would insist on having them done. Horses shed caps/baby teeth until they are five years old. As these caps shed they leave VERY sharp points on the teeth that cut into the cheek, gums, and tounges. During the exam he can also make sure that the wolf teeth have been removed. Also he can make sure that he does not have any retained caps, these are very painful. All of these things can cause the problems you are describing. It is an easy fix. Horses between age 2 and 5 should have their teeth done yearly, after that about every other year works for most horses, if motorized equipment is used. Yearly floats if your vet does it the old fashioned way with hand floats.

None of my horses have ever come back with raw mouths. A twisted wire is a little rough on a young horse. A regular snaffle or a tom thumb should be fine.

I do agree with Joe as that not all people and horses get along and make a good match. My husband's mare and I can't stand each other, and I have had her since she was 5 months (now 11yrs). You may like him but is it really worth all of the grief that it is causing you. I would have gotten rid of our mare but I don't have to ride her.


Hope this helps.


Just a side note about teeth:

I do have a client that has a top barrel horse & the horse tells her when he needs his teeth done. When his teeth start getting the slightest bit sharp he will lose a 1/2 second on his time. Once those few points are gone he is more comfortable and his speed picks back up.

That helps a lot. thank you! His teeth were done about 8 months ago but I had the vet check them anyhow because I was worried about him having a sore mouth. I am sure they don't need to be done again yet. He came home pretty banged up in general, cuts, scrapes, etc. so that's why I had the vet out, just wanted to be sure he wasn't uncomfortable.
I think he responds to the tom thumb better than he did the snaffle, it has guards on the side so maybe it doesn't feel like or remind him of a bad experience with what the trainer was using, I don't know.
After last evenings ride, I am thinking more about selling him, but then what about the next person who gets him? I really do love him, he has a funny personality and can be affectionate when he's not trying to kill me. I had planned on having this horse for the rest of my riding years and having him grow old here. On the other hand, it would be nice to just have a horse I could ride and love without any of these issues. Maybe he would be better off with someone more experienced in his problems. I don't know. this is very disappointing. Maybe another 90 days with a different trainer, it's just hard to afford after the $3500. I spent for this 90 day period. Pretty soon my horse will be worth millions.! Just kidding. Thanks for the replies. Even just the support helps!

~Lorna

I think you're doing the right thing with the "head tossing = work" approach. Also, any time your horse tosses his head, he is resisting pressure. Hold the pressure on the reins until his head is quiet, and as soon as his head is quiet, even for a few seconds at first, release the
rein and reward him. It may help to anchor your hand of the saddle or on
your leg when he is tossing his head, so he can not pull your hands
around and give himself a release from the pressure that way. For more horse training q and a, check out www.horsetrainingquestions.com.