Ok,
The more I ressearch the more confusion.

You say;
A professional Barefoot Trimmer will plainly tell you that sole should never be over trimmed, and in most cases there is never a reason to trim a live, healthy Sole that is functioning perfectly well. This is part of what defines a Barefoot trim from a Standard farrier's trim. The healthy sole callous should be left alone to function as it was made to function. Period.


They say;

I don't think I've ever seen a horse that was shod for more than a year, that didn't have white line damage. Anyone who helps lots of horses return to a barefoot condition, comes to recognize that horseshoes (plus infrequent trimming due to shoeing) do damage the feet. Most feet are going to be sore for a while after you pull the shoes -- fronts much more than hinds, because they carry more of the horse's weight.

It can be very hard to admit to ourselves that we have caused this much damage to our beloved horses' feet by doing what we thought was best for them, e.g. keeping them shod. I know how hard it is from personal experience, as well as from "holding the hand" of horse owners while they go through the early part of Transition. The truth is, we made them sore; and so we get to live through the recovery time with them, including not riding for a while if necessary.

In general, it takes about a year of correct care before the de-shod hoof returns to the complete soundness it had before-shoes.

You say;

A Barefoot Trim should not ever come too close at the toe. And P-3 does not move within the hoof though the capsule around it does.

They say;
Chronic laminitis is a frustrating and often disheartening condition to manage. The biggest challenge to the veterinarian and the farrier is to improve function in a foot that has substantial and possibly permanent structural changes. Chief among these is displacement of the third phalanx (P3), which is the underlying problem responsible for the clinical hallmarks of chronic laminitis: chronic lameness, recurrent foot abscesses, and abnormal hoof wall growth ( Hood 1999; Morgan et al 1999; Pollitt 1999).

Rotation of P3 is the most common form of displacement and has several clinically important consequences. With rotation, weight bearing is concentrated at the apex of P3, which causes focal pressure on the solar corium in that area. Pain is the most obvious and most urgent consequence. Ischemia of the solar corium (and probably of the tip of P3) is also an important sequela, as it retards sole growth (Redden 1997; Hood 199.

In addition to causing further damage to the laminar attachments in the dorsal hoof wall, rotation of P3 can lead to excessive pressure on the coronary corium by the extensor process. The resulting ischemia alters the rate, and in severe cases even the direction, of horn growth from the coronary papillae in this area (Pollitt 1995; Hood 1999)

You say;
If they are trimming their horses to the point of soreness/lameness- they are not following a correct Barefoot Trim Method which goes as the horse should never be lame or sore after a trim.
And NO. No experienced professional who knows what he is doing in Barefoot Trimming is going to tell you that your horse will show signs of foot soreness after a trim. That is completely false. Get your facts straight please and study before you post.

They say:
After you pull the shoes, there is a rehabilitation period of several months to well over a year, depending on the amount of internal damage in the foot. Increased blood flow starts to rebuild internal structures that were damaged by the shoes. Until the rebuilding is complete, most horses are sore and will need hoof boots to ride on gravel roads, rocky trails, or frozen ground.

Transition is the reason why so many people have said, "Barefoot doesn't work for my horse." It is admittedly a time of inconvenience for the rider. However, once we understand that horseshoes do weaken the hooves, we can do certain things to make the horse rideable while it grows out a new, better hoof.

The transition period is over when the sole regains concavity

Although, Not a method I use.
I do read up on things before I post.
As stated above.
The more I read, the less sense it makes.
Of coarse, with all things horse.
Everyone has a different way to interpret the same information.

It, in my opinion depends on location and the horse.
I haved lived where the sole did need to be taken(very wet, thrush)
I have lived where you basically had to shoe (extremely hot, burned feet)
Now here in texas all our horses are barefoot and we don't take much sole in any.
I have not had any problems since I quit shoeing.
Just my personal exoeriences.

[quote=Ltc4h;10239]Ok,


I don't know who the "They" is that you speak of, but I do certainly agree with excess shoeing causing white line damage. So put me in with the "they," people, along with most any Professional Barefoot specialist. Very correct quote- I agree with it. Not sure why you want to seperate me from other people who say this, as I would say the same. Yes, most horses will be sore after pulling shoes.
It actually doesn't have to take that long to rehab a hoof. Through correct trimming techniques, the hoof can regrow totally new sole, frog, and especially all wall layers- TOP to BOTTOM in as little as 5 months. May be less, but this is the shortest time frame I have heard of thus far. You might find more info in hoofrehab.


Etc etc... Yes, I certainly am quite aware of the term "rotation of P3." However, this is easily misunderstood in it's term. The rotation of P3 is NOT P3 alone WITHIN the hoof capsule, though the capsule around it can move- P3 isn't going anywhere by itself. It never does. However, being within the capsule, when capsule moves/rotates (whatever term you like) of course P3 is inside. But no- alone, not moving. That is the term Rotation of P3. Hope that makes sense to you. May check it out at hoofrehab.com- or some other sites (I can find for you if you like) you may understand it better.
Most professionals realize P3 can drop into a low position in the hoof capsule. Few realize this can be reversed. Nothing is dreaded or feared quite like "the sinker", but it doesn't have to be a death sentence. Yes, P3 can settle.


Misunderstood you. My thoughts were that our first subject was on already healthy, decently sound barefooted hooves. NO- AFTER a trim with this type of hoof- if hoof is already fairly sound- should NEVER be footsore or lame or farrier has made a mistake.

For a hoof with shoes just pulled- OF COURSE- NO BRAINER. More than likely if that hoof was been standing on a steel shoe for a long period of time, will probably be foot sore until transition completes back to barefooting normal. Whether or not this type of hoof is trimmed- if it's already sore from the new barefoot stage- a correct barefoot trim method is NOT what is causing the lameness/soreness. It sounded like you were trying to mix two different subjects. These are two totally different hooves. But- in simple sentance: No Barefoot Trim method (If issued correctly) should cause any soreness- even if the hoof is already foot sore from having a shoe. Trim should never make that worse. A Barefoot Farrier who is tried and true to his technique, will tell you this.


Yes in general, but does depend upon location, diet, terrain, and horse's workload as Cuttin74 has stated.
A barefoot horse traveling over arena, dirt, gravel, pasture- will have more concavity than that of a barefoot horse traveling over substance such as asphalt (Buggy/ carriage horse). That sole is really going to thicken, especially at the toe, and more so at quarters than the first horse, making the hoof alot less concave than the first horse. Just going to depend upon the terrain, workload- and so forth.


You are 150% correct! I can see by your reply, that there were both things that appear as though you misunderstood some of my words, and things that I misunderstood concerning some of your words. I do apologize for the confusion- hooves are a very complex matter. Thanks for discussing with me, I find this subject incredibly interesting and though I am a farrier, I still love discussing.

It would be certainly convenient if farrier's had the schooling of trimming a little more. It's quite a bit more complex than the average farrier takes into consideration.